(Though the title might throw you off, this is really not about St John the Baptist.) The news release is rather terse.
Toronto police have charged a reverend after he allegedly sexually assaulted a woman inside a Toronto church.
According to police, the incident happened last Tuesday All Saints, a Romanian Orthodox Church, in the Birchmount Road/Danforth Road area.
Police charged a Ioan Pop, 54, with sexual assault. He is scheduled to appear in court on the sexual assault charge on Oct. 15.
According to police a couple entered the church and interrupted the alleged assault.
Police believe there may be more victims, and they are asking anyone with information to call investigators at 416-808-4100 or Crime Stoppers anonymously at 416-222-TIPS (8477).
Here’s the original police PDF.
LE: More charges were levied on September 30 and Ioan Pop was again arrested.
I dedicated an entire category on this blog to “biserica” (church). I’ve written about the backward Christianity practiced in Romania, I echoed the portrayal of a Romanian priest from Pennsylvania, wrote about the Christian priests in Jerusalem who beat each other every year on Christmas, I wrote a religion Glossary (I, II) and even listed all religious holidays 2010-2020, but I never thought I was going to write about a [Romanian] rapist priest. That’s partly because in the Orthodox Church, priests are allowed to marry and they are actually expected to do so [this priest is married with children], which should at least theoretically reduce the chances of sexual assault / rape. Secondly, the relatively greater autonomy of parishes in Canada should ensure that the chances of getting away with such "lapses" long term are smaller.
Then again, it’s possible that this was a false report – it remains to be seen.
LE: One thing that I previously described and made me uneasy is "sfanta impartasanie" which consists of confessing your sins while you place your head under the priest's black dress. To an outsider walking in, especially if they're not aware of that custom, it may seem like the believer is fellating the priest. If they interrupt such an activity, the "believer" might be dumbfounded (maybe they were just confessing a shameful sin) and run away. I only confessed my sins once in this manner, and the experience left me with a sour taste in my mouth.
From Romanian Archdiocese of Americas, we find what seems to be a mature organization with multiple contact points.
ALL SAINTS ROMANIAN ORTHODOX CHURCH
Address: 545 Danforth Road
City: Scarborough
State: ON
Zip code: M1K 1C9
CANADA
Phone: 416-261-7656
Website: www.totisfintii.comPriest: V. Rev. Fr. Dr. Ioan Pop
Address: 28 Ashglen Court
City: Toronto
State: ON
Zip code: M1T 3X3
Phone: 416-444-9095; Cell: 416-275-1529
Website: www.totisfintii.com
Email: totisfintii@gmail.com» Choir Director: Teodora Ioana Pop
Address: 28 Ashglen Court
City: Toronto
State: ON
Zip code: M1T 3X3
Phone: 416-356-9095
Website: www.totisfintii.com» Parish Council President: Dr. Cristian Havriliuc
Address: 7 Mallingham Court
City: Toronto
State: ON
Zip code: M3N 6G3
Phone: 416-512-6898
Website: www.totisfintii.com
Email: raresg@sympatico.ca» Ladies' Auxiliary (AROLA) President: Magda Popescu
Address: 59 MacBride Crescent
City: Maple
State: ON
Zip code: L6A 3R3
Phone: 905-303-8156 / 416-681-6757
Website: www.totisfintii.com
Email: mpopescu@bentallkennedy.com
The Parish Council is also listed on their website.
Parish Priest
Dr. Pop, Ioan
President
Dr. Havriliuc, Cristian
Vicepresident - Dr. Dinca Panaitescu, Serban
Secretary - Lup, Stela
Churchwarden I - Alexei, Cosmin
Churchwarden II - Vestemean, Radu
Cashier - Letea, Leonard
Ticket Collector - Cozos, Ovidiu
Bookkeeper - Mandeal, Stelian
Bookkeeper - Bangu, Cezar
Administrator I - Marcu, Dan
Administrator II - Pitu, Florin
Social Activities Directors - Banica, Constantin - Popescu, Dan Florin
Media Director - Olaru, Florinel
In charge with Religious Music - Gaina, Dan - Codreanu, Iustin
Counselor - Nicolae, Gheorghe
Counselor - Barbur, Leontin
Counselor - Dragomir, Gheorghe
Counselor - Olaru, Doru
Counselor - Popa, FlorinLADIES'S COMMITTEE
President - Popescu, Magda
Vicepresident - Otvos, Fanica
Pitica, Catalina
Toderean, Cornelia
Olaru, Lenuta
Oros, Diana
Barbur, Ica
Pop, Flavia
Marcu, Carolina
Priestess Pop, Adela
The Parish publishes its history as well.
Under the jurisdiction of the Romanian Orthodox Archdiocese in the Americas, “All Saints” Romanian Orthodox Parish of Toronto, Canada, started with the arrival in Canada, on 5 July 1999, of Fr. John Pop with Adela priestess and the two daughters Julia-Maria and Theodora-Joana, invited by group of believers from Toronto. The intention was to form a parish and build a church for the Orthodox Romanians are living here.
The beginning was exceedingly difficult. A true pioneering work. There was nothing organized because there was nothing before: no church, no house for priest, no salary, no legal registration to the Government, no bank account, no valid stamp or real list of the believers or valid governing council elected by anyone, nor gospel, liturgical vessel or books, no priestly vestments and icons ... absolutely nothing. It was only desire, courage, hope and faith, more faith in God.
We followed the legal steps for the organization and registration of newly created parish, and for very beginning we rented a classroom in a "Community Center" on Progress Street, Hw. 401/Markham Road. Increasing the number of the parishioners, it was necessary to find a more spacious location and thus moved at the address: 48, Thorncliffe Park Drive, Toronto, where we worshipped almost four years, with a break of six months, when, due to capital renovations at main room, we had to change again the location, for Knox Presbyterian Church, at 4156, Sheppard Avenue East, Toronto.
Meanwhile, Father John is struggling to build the church of souls, gathering Christian by Christian, heart to heart, serving God and people with and without time. Even when the storm of the life hit his family, losing their eldest beloved daughter, Julia-Maria, at only 15 years and three months, Fr. John did not abandon the parish or leave it without Holy Mass or sermon. He was and is surrounded and helped by a worthy Parish Council, advised by Committee of the Ladies as well, and others Christians believers. For their supplementary spiritual food, there is weekly published in 200 copies, and distributed for free, the Parish Bulletin with spiritual themes, moral, historical or dogmatic.
First Compact Disc (CD) with Romanian carols songs recorded by a priest in Toronto was that of Father John and reads "Evening of Christmas" and then the second one, "Feast of Nativity has arrived".
In an effort to raise funds for the new desired church building, the parish organized in addition to other activities and those famous and very appreciated balls, (parties), starting with the "snowdrops" and ending with that of "grapes." Besides some financial benefit for the church , there was and is the capital, the most important, closeness, bonding, welding and broaden the community, a better understanding and help for Romanians. Although the services were held in a gym, in provisory conditions, though the room was always full of believers and never Santa Claus forgot to come bearing gifts to the children of our parish.
Once having made the Church of souls, and adding some money, then proceeded to build the wall church. Here's what they say in a call of Father John to the Christians believers in Toronto and across Canada:
"With God's will, following the parable of the Romanian Christians ancestors back home and elsewhere, the founders of the holy places of worship, we decided that here in Toronto, to raise another Romanian church to the glory of God and the salvation of our soul."
In the days of the feast of St. Demetrius, October 26, 2002, and St. Archangels Michael and Gabriel, 8 November 2002, was found the right place by Ovidiu and Viorica Serbanescu family. The deal was done, the place was bought and made all documents in order to become owners of the propriety located at 545, Danforth Road (with Birchmount). Then it was drafted plans to build the new churches: the architecture, design, structure strength, the mechanical, electrical, and obtaining all clearances and approvals from competent authorities to be able to start the work.
Church is "spiritual mother of the Romanian people", said the Romanian paragon poetry, Mihai Eminescu. With the feeling that we belong to a spiritual mother (the Church), and that we will have a Romanian and Christian property in foreign land, we will go with love toward that place, we will feel closer to God and brothers among each others. We will eliminate the feeling of great distance from the country of origin and the partition of it, will clear feel comfortable when we enter a Romanian Church, with a Romanian architecture, with servants and service in the "Language of ancient religious books."
An Orthodox church is usually not large, cold, empty, but is small, full, warm, painted, that it seems that the sky descended on earth. We feel we are in a fortress of the Romanian spirit, and through this desired Church and by other churches, we eternalize and do honorable the Romanian and Christian name in these zones. We will represent on very long term our country of origin, the language, the customs and Romanian faith, here in Canada. We will write a page of history, and history and posterity will not forget us.
The new church was consecrated on 22 June 2008, by a clergy group composed of the Archbishop Dr. Nicolae, Bishop John Cassian, Bishop Irenaeus Duvlea (Romanian Orthodox Episcopate of America) surrounded by 12 priests of the two Romanian Orthodox Diocese of America, 2 deacons, and a multitude of people.
Looking back over time, when in the day first we had nothing, we can exclaim with the Psalmist: "O Great are you, O Lord, and marvelous are your works and they are no words which suffice to praise your wonders," or to say with chronicler: "The thought prevailed!"
There is a link to a page dedicated to Father Ioan Pop on the website, but it was either empty or “censored” since the arrest events.
I might be naive, but I do hope this is one big misunderstanding or at least a one-time lapse. If, however, it is not a mere misunderstanding, and you are or know of additional victims, contact Police and let them know.
What bugs me and cannot figure out on my own is if people gather in congregations and churches mostly for recapturing a sense of community and less to worship God, does that increase the chances of sexual assault / rape to go unreported, or is it the other way around?
LE: What's been missing from this article is Father Ioan Pop's voice. Here it is, from jr-distrus (link below, in Sources), provided by Rucsandra Saulean in comments.
- the alleged abuse took place on Sept 4, when the woman came to the church to request a letter of recommendation that her lawyer could use in court so that she can see her 8 year old child more often
- "I'm devastated. I’ve no strength left, this is a just a setup, the harshest possible. It’s a terrible shock. I feel destroyed, the good name and the reputation that we have built in 14 years here are squandered."
- her child has been placed in foster care because, according to Father Ioan Pop, the mother is emotionally unstable
- “She had visiting hours only on Tuesday and Wednesday, 2 hours each, and she wanted to see her child on Saturday and Sunday as well and bring the child in the Romanian community. I have also baptised her child, in 2006. She came back to the community a while back and she has also been attending church. We felt empathy for her, we fed her and we even collected clothes and other items for them.”
- “I wrote that letter, then, as is the Romanian custom, we kiss on the cheek when you see them, you kiss them good bye, you wish them safe travel. Two days later police called me to visit them that there is a complaint against me at the 41st Division. They asked me: <<Do you know why you’re here?>> – <<I know if you told me>>, I said. They handcuffed me, took my photo, my fingerprints. They checked my background.. and after about 2 hours they let me go. They told me I can go home, but I am not allowed to go to church, I am not allowed to leave the province – standard restrictions. But I can’t have that, I have to go to church, that’s my job, it’s like they’re telling me I cannot earn my living.
- “The police did not want to tell me anything about the complaint. Not who accused me, not when, not why or how. I learned the details only when they freed me from arrest – on the paper it’s written who accused me and the incrimination – sexual assault. (..) She filed the complaint on Wednesday, and on Sunday she was again in church. We were warm and polite, as usual, we offered her coffee, we talked. I expect her to show up in church this Sunday as well, as if nothing happened. Even her godfather called me, to tell us not to take it to heart, because she is very upset when she filed the complaint and was not thinking straight. And that she will take her complaint back.”
- The Father has on his side even the witnesses supposedly called by the complainant: “The witnesses were there, in the church. Geta & George had been waiting for me for half an hour, in silence. They were left flabbergasted and dumbfounded, how can she say that when they were there and did not disturb us while we wrote the letter and stayed on after she left to discuss their own problem.”
- Father Ioan Pop must attend trial on October 15 even if the complaint will be retracted. “I take it as a test from the Devil, it will pass. Life goes on and maybe others will also learn to stop being warm, to keep distance, to be cold and protocoled and very careful.”
Sadly, that is a real concern. Many educators are no longer touching kids at all for fear or litigation, school boards dismantle swings because they can no longer afford liability insurance, and most professionals are paralyzed by this fear (yr-nwsk).
In an article published in InsideToronto, Magda Popescu rises cautiously to the priest’s defence:
- “Actually he built this church, of course with the help of the community, but he was always working hard,” she said. “Really, I cannot say anything bad about him.”
- Popescu described Pop as a “very good priest” who kept the community together. “Everyone is shocked,” she said. “I don’t know what to believe now...I hope that the truth will come out.”
- About 100 families are members of All Saints.
- Popescu said she has known Pop and his family for about 12 years. “A short time after he came (to Canada) he lost one of his daughters,” she said. “We’ve been very close to them because they went through so much.” Popescu said Pop’s oldest daughter passed away from an illness at age 15 about 12 years ago. Popescu said she spoke to Pop’s wife after hearing on Friday morning that he had been charged. “Of course she’s shocked, and they are trying to deal with everything,” she said. “But definitely we’ll help them, and I guess the community will still be together.”
I might address Grammar Nazism elsewhere. For now, you might want to try folosirea virgulei si simtul limbii.
Doamne-ajuta!
LE: It appears that on May 6, 2015, Ioan Pop admitted to assaulting 10 women.
Sources / More info: 680n, Gm-priest, cn-charged, nt1010, ct, np, jr-distrus, inside-to, lawsuit-abuse, dm-teachers, yr-nwsk
"The relatively greater autonomy of parishes in Canada should ensure that the chances of getting away with such "lapses" long term are smaller" - I'm not following. How exactly does autonomy prevent abuse?
ReplyDeleteI'm talking about long-term abuse of the kind that happened in the Catholic church, where repeated complaints went ignored with priests being reassigned in a worst case scenario. To build a church, local groups raise money on their own, etc., there is seemingly more representation in councils and I'd surmise they are less likely to tolerate chronic abuse. Furthermore, I suspect there are lots of priests who would rather "do their thing" in Canada then in Romania.
ReplyDeleteAlthough I can't argue with your comment, I do have to wonder if the relative ''isolation'' does not ''encourage'' such abuses.
ReplyDeleteI can agree that old people are isolated (I'm very curious how old was the complainant) but younger and middle-aged people should not be more "isolated" than in Romania.
ReplyDeleteThe first impulse is to tend to believe this, due to the SENSATIONALISM attached to it. But, people, think before you judge someone you don't know! Rev. Pop is a very, very decent MAN, one of the most respectable members of the Romanian community in the GTA. And the church he built IS a safe and saint place, just as it is supposed to be. As detailed in an interview given to a Romanian newspaper (http://jurnalul.ro/stiri/externe/preot-roman-acuzat-de-agresiune-sexuala-in-canada-sunt-distrus-e-o-inscenare-651531.html), the woman who accused him has serious emotional problems and even has restrictions to see her own child (that is why she came for help). The couple who allegedly "rescued" her, had actually been in church all along waiting until the end of her meeting with the priest (she needed a recommendation letter and Rev. Pop helped her). Just like all the sane and common sensed people who know Rev. Pop, they are astonished by what the woman did and they will be there support him. It took him 14 years to build this beautiful community and church; and look, it takes 5 minutes of a sick-to-the-mind woman to demolish everything. If anything is disgusting here, it is what an irresponsible woman is able to do sometimes. Rev. Pop, in all his shock and sorrow, accepts the woman in his church every Sunday and hopes she will come back to her senses. THIS IS NOT THE CLASSIC STORY IGNORANT PEOPLE WANT TO HEAR FOR ENTERTAINMENT! This is the extremely unfortunate case of a really good and INNOCENT man becoming the victim of the very people he offers to help in every way he can.
ReplyDeleteYes you're right it shouldn't be the classic story for ignorants to be entertained, but before you slander that innocent woman and another seven that claimed to have been sexually harrased or abused, guess what he is really guilty so stop defending that snake... I can assure you he is not that innocent because I'm the 9th woman that can testify against him.
DeleteThere are more women that complained of Pop's inappropriate behavior but never filed a formal complain with the police so this is not something new for the members of the Toronto Romanian community. My hope is the truth will prevail and the offender will pay!
ReplyDeleteBut what exactly is "inappropriate behavior"? Did it involve sexual touching, or was he simply being too pushy for some people's liking?
ReplyDeleteHey Mr. Writer
ReplyDeleteJust to clarify the confession part and your disturbing description. You do not go under the priest black dress (maybe in your imagination :) ) . It is called "patrafir" (Epitrahil in English) and it is a long embroidered or ornamented wedge of fabric hanging on priest's neck (see image here: http://ro.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epitrahil ). Catholics also have' it.
About Mr. Ioan Pop, as much as everyone appreciates what he did for church, if he is guilty he should be removed from his role and punished accordingly by law as well as by the church. He can serve in other ways that won't involve the position of power and access to vulnerable people.
It is a shame for community that can be cleaned up by doing what' s right.
Hey, Zamo, it's the first time I am running into your blog. I found it
ReplyDeletewhile searching news about Ioan Pop.
Well, you seem to be of Romanian origin or you seem to know many about
Romanians. If you have a Romanian background, you are certainly one of the few
that don't have space in their brains for two languages and had to
"forget" Romanian in order to learn English.
Anyhow your article related to the case of Ioan Pop shows such a superficiality
of your horizons! I am not trying to take side of the priest, that's the job of
the justice to find the truth. I am just referring to your other statements.
Your statement related to autonomy contains a grammar mistake. It should be
"long term lapses" as in English the adjectives stay before the noun.
By all means the most outrageous paragraph is the one in which you are
describing spiritual things, of which you understand nothing.
The outfit of an orthodox priest consists in two pieces: "Stiharul"
is a long outfit, with sleeves that covers the whole body from the neck to the toes. On the top
of this the priest wears "Epitrahilul" that is a rectangle hanged by
his neck and wide of about 40 cm. If you ever confessed under the black dress,
for sure your sour taste in your mouth was because you fellated that priest.
Normal people confess from under the epitrahil and they just feel
relieved after the confession.
There should have been something wrong with that "sfanta
impartasanie" that you took from that priest who put you under his black
dress. Are you sure you didn't go by mistake to Jehova's witnesses ?
Also, if you didn't "keep up with the church happenings"
don't write about it because you risk saying stupid things. Ioan Pop's church
was the third Romanian Church having its own building at the time when it was
built. Now there are even more Romanian churches with their own buildings.
So, buddy, this might be your blog, but if you post it for others to
read, then do your homework, your research and don't play the journalist's
game. That's for grade 4 kids. Unless your progress stopped there.
Dear Adriana,
ReplyDeletefirst of all, as much I had read, this article has been published lately on all local and international main newspapers as of The Toronto Star, Globe and Mail, and all Romanian TV channels. The grammar or the standard of English language level and skills of everyone who want to express freely their opinion is priceless. The most important thing is if our priest had done one of these acts stipulated by The Canadian Law of Sexual assault, Art. 271. If he did, he will be convicted for years in prison. It doesn't matter what he did for the church of community or how are legally punished the sexual assaults in catholic or another religious churches all over the world. Please read carefully the followings and make your unobstructed opinion:
http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/85f0033m/85f0033m2008019-eng.htm
According to the above law, a sexual assault is a serious matter in Canada, with another words it's a criminal act and this has to be disclosed publicly in order to prevent another victims. All sexual offenders have their record and the local police keep the track of their movements. Regarding the shame, please leave it with old fashion people or with the offender to meditate now, if his feelings were stronger than his consciousness, scruples.That's the way that we have to think on this country after a certain years of immigration from our homeland.
So I say you show up in court on October 15th.
ReplyDeleteHopefully, your english will improve by then, as well as your knowledge of religious rituals, clothing, etc.
:P
And let's not forget about the romanian dentist - keep us posted.
Looks like women of romanian origin are abused in Canada on a hourly base.
Nu prea inteleg de ce vorbiti in engleza pe un grup de discutii cu mesaje pe romana. Este hilar :) Iar despre confuzatul lingvistic Zamo - nu prea stie ce limbi mai stie (posteaza pe engleza si discutiile au texte pe romana). Ar cam trebui sa te hotaresti...
ReplyDelete"on a hourly base" is bait for Ariadna? :)
ReplyDeleteBy the same token, why comment in Romanian to an article in English?
ReplyDeleteHere's an idea: use whatever language blows your hair back
Nooo...!
ReplyDeleteBut I'm shocked, I'm telling you I'm absolutely SHOCKED - by the amount of sexual abuse in the romanian-canadian community...
(keep up the good work/your blog is very interesting/etc)
Da' lasăn-e frate, să scrim fiecare c-um vrea... ce dreaq', ori e democrație, or am fă-cut revoluție degeaba!
ReplyDeleteCe faci bre... dai cu șprei anti-maidanezi?
ReplyDeleteTe-ai învățat să răspunzi cu superioritate humilă?
Ete-al dreaq' Zamo... prost-prost!... da' și-a tras cetățenie vestică...
We'll soon have an "impartasanie survivors" support group. Wanna join? :)
ReplyDeleteDeci bre!
ReplyDeleteIo zic s-o lăsați mai moale cu acuzații, păreri și hopinii... până se limpezește hapele juridice.
Toronto nu-i tot aia cu Vaslui, ori Pipera.
Acilea nu se practică datu' cu părerea - juridic vorbind.
Ciocu' mai mic... pro ori contra.
Ce dreaq' frate... voi vreți să instaurați românismu' în Canada?
Păiii... parcă de "românism" ați fugit, nu?
.............
A ciupit-o dă sfârcuri?
A trântit-o pă bancă?
I-a băgat deștu?
Hai, pă concret, nu pă... "i-a pus patrafiru'... și i s-a sculat mădularu' scârbavnic...!"
Bre Proffesore... ce tândălea Zamo... e că dacă bisericile e fiecare dă capu' ei... nu ai hautoritatea supremă dă la Vatican, să mușamalizezi caterinca. El zice "isolation", tu citești englezește și reiese un kkat de înțelegere.
ReplyDeleteProblema cu Zamo... cum am mai zis... e că el gândește românește, da' scrie englezește.
Reiese un lucru manual, ca să nu zic frecat menta.
Ce vrea el să zică... e că bisericile românești... nefiind ABSOLUT și TOTAL dependente de autoritatea supremă de la mitropolie... șansele de a mușamaliza kkatul sunt mai mici.
Scandalul devine local - nu mai e ghidonat de cardinali, mitropoliți ori alea.
Să mai helaborez... ori te-ai prins frate...?
:-)
Nu.
ReplyDeleteÎntreaga ceremonie mi s-a părut întotdeauna (instinctiv) ceva înjositor.
M-a dus mama când aveam 6 ani... părintele a încercat să pună cârpa pe cap... am zbierat... mama s-a rușinat, popa s-a distrat, m-a luat în brațe... m-a pupat pe 2 obraji... mi-a zis că io nu mai am nevoie de d-astea, că ce păcate are copilu' ăsta, doamnă?
Era un popă bătrân, cam mirosea a ieșit la pensie... chestia e... m-a liniștit. A scos batista, m-a șters pă față... alea.
Un popă românesc, ce să mai.
Deci, ecsperența mea e mai bună ca a ta.
Ce orizonturi inguste ai! Nu-i carpa, e.. ummm.... altceva :)
ReplyDeleteThat was mostly a joke, but thank you for the clarification. I strongly doubt he's guilty, but you never know..
ReplyDeleteThank you for the link and translation, I'll update the text.
ReplyDeleteDa, așa e... io am ochii mai apropiați... și botu' mai lung.
ReplyDeleteMaidanez, ce vrei?
Who died and left u king?!
ReplyDeletePpl can comment whatever they want.. The only problem is that comments containing a link (URL) need to be manually approved. Other than that, no restrictions here.
M-am prins ca vorbea despre descentralizare. Credeam ca-i vorba de izolare in sens sociologic :)
ReplyDeleteCum 'cea și alții... inglișu lu' Zeamo o oareșcum/oareșcît.
ReplyDeleteIo dă mult am lătrat pă subect... da' deh - io latru, Oprescu haude.
Hope it's not the same lady - famous on canadian-romanian forums - have to dig links & al.
ReplyDeleteBLEGU' (rânjing cu satisfacție): "Hai văzut ce frumos ți-am ridicat-o la hileu?"
ReplyDeleteHaici-șa... e cam ca în Berceni... în spatilii glopurilor... dacă nu latri ca lumea... vine țiganii la furat bara dă bătut covoare... și p-ormă... tot io-s vinovat.
ReplyDeleteAcilea... io-s șăf de grămadă... tu doar scrii ocazional.
Nope, Blegoo, not the same lady. Whoever Ariadna is, I have no knowledge of that. I just deleted my comment ... but for other reasons. BTW, if any Romanian has a problem with another Romanian posting in a different language, I say put a sock in it, it's not about losing one's mother tongue and stuff, it's about keeping the conversation open for international opinions. This very case is a Canadian one after all, so let's breathe in and out, relax and be nice to each other.
ReplyDeleteBLEGOO (indignat): "Păii... și io ce-am zis? Mai sus ori mai jos... căcomentariili lu' Zeamo e cam flușturatece, așea...
ReplyDelete(cu convingere): http://www.blegoo.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/blegu.mp3
(împăciuitor): "Rucsăndrițo... io nu mă refeream la Ariadna... ori la minotauru' ei... care o fi!
'ceam de una... pă forumuri dă canada-românia... care era plină dă scârbă la adresa Canadei... că ce cîcat de țară... că una-alta. Lumea a ascultat-o nițel... dup-aia... cum e românii, imparțiali... i-a dat cu huoo și huideo.
Chestie care mie mi s-a părut oarecum nedreaptă... în sensul în care nu țipi la cineva evident cu probleme - că nu rezolvi nimica.
Da' mi-am adus aminte, că am citit că cică acuzatoarea are probleme emoționale, alea.
Că copil, că alea.
Habar n-am care-i treaba, cum am zis, hai să vedem ce se de lă tribonal, nu?
Alte caterinici... gen... "păi ăla a pipăit toate enoriașele..." mi se par românisme dă Berceni, cum ziceam."
(oftând): "Clar... poți să scoți românu' dîn România... da' e greu să scoți România dîn român"
...............................
Zeamo... să te duci să faci riportaj la tribonal, poate mai înveți și tu chestii religioase, alea.
I'm not going to the tribunal. I don't have a very good opinion about Canadian "justice". It's a system set up for lawyers to make money off people's outrage. The typical trial is full of logical fallacies that are left to stand unchecked, incompetent or lazy judges and dudes dressed in Harry Potter attire who expect "respect" for that reason. Not my cup of soup.
ReplyDeleteWell, it's your choice.
ReplyDeleteWould've been interesting to have an impartial observer in court, the system being what it is.
But lemme ask you something: if you're not willing to follow up on the story, why raise the subject in the first place?
Just because it's the "romanian" label involved?
Or because it involves a priest?
'Cause there are plenty of sexual assault stories every day - but you don't write/care about.
I say... reconsider.
It will be an interesting afternoon, if nothing else.
I'm willing to pay for your time... say, about a hundred bucks.
Easy money, don't ya think?
:-)
you pay in bitcoin, or cheques with invisible ink? :)
ReplyDeletecash on top of the barrel.
ReplyDeleteI'm serious.
It may be your ONLY chance to make money from this blog.
Don't waste it.
Once in a Lifetime:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZoqLCFd8oNs
list your condiions then, in full - use my email
ReplyDeletehere's a good "debate" on religion: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJXtCUBwBCI
ReplyDeleteAm folosit, am listat.
ReplyDeleteClovnerie liberalo-socialistă.
ReplyDeleteFREE POPA ION! THANKS OBAMA! BĂSESCU, SPER CĂ EȘTI FERICIT! FREE ROȘIA MONTANĂ!
ReplyDeleteMai în glumă, mai în serios, am avut nefericirea de a-l întâlni pe personaj la ceva nunți și nu m-aș mira să fie "doctor în mânuirea țâțelor", cum îl descriau unii pe alte forumuri. Mi s-a parut superlibidinos, și deși mie nu mi-a mânuit țâțele, ouăle a vrut să mi le numere.
Dar dacă n-a abuzat-o pe aia să fie sănătos.
puteai si tu sa depui o plangere..
ReplyDeleteDaca nu ai fost multumit cu vreun aspect al prestatiei, tot poti face plangere. Exista precedent in Prahova: http://youtu.be/mYlNTLnTJvc
ReplyDeleteHow about all the other counts ``Guest``
ReplyDeleteWhat do you know about ``really good and innocent man`` you are talking about...it looks he was working hard for personal gain both financial and why not sexual-after all these complaints!!
How well do you know him actually, how close are you to him in fact, defending him so hard eh...if this first complaint filed with Police comes from someone let`s say questionable, I wonder, all the other that came forward are of the same condition, believe not! No matter how hard might be for the ones close to him - family, friends or business partners - the truth will prevail, his true image will be finally exposed and he will get what he worked hard for, all these years, both here in Canada as well as back home, in his origin country.
By the way the facts are presented by Police, after these late allegations it looks like he is somewhat involved in things that shameful for his religious organization, wondered if he is an ``independent`` or he is affiliated to any major Church, does he have a ``head of church`` to report to, and if yes that Person knows about his behavior has taken any steps to have him investigated...
Some other blogger mentioned about his efforts to consolidate the congregation, to strengthen the ties between church members, but did he managed to keep them all together after all, it looks like there are two camps now, ``the supporters`` and people that know his real character.
It does look to me that you people should wait the end of this story and at that time you will be able to draw conclusions. I did!
Happy blogging.
Am auzit că nu mai e necesar să fac nici o plângere - între timp s-au strâns 8 plângeri, printre care și una de lipsire de libertate. A belit-o popa Ion, și tare am senzația că o s-o belească în continuare la pârnaie cu aceleași mânuțe cu care adineaori pipăia trupurile tinere sau mai puțin tinere ale enoriașelor, și cu care băga banii de la prostime în buzunar. Și că veni vorba de bani, ar fi tare să se autosesizeze și CRA acum și să vedem câte din lichiditățile folosite la recenta cumpărare a casei fiică-si au fost declarate și câte nu.
ReplyDeleteȘtii cum se zice - prostia și domnia se plătesc - și popa se pare că se bucura de amândouă din plin.
Cel mai inteligent comentariu. Finally...
DeleteI'm still not 100% convinced he's guilty, though obviously the additional accusations lend more credence to the initial complaint. It sounds to me like you're a bit upset with priests in general. My point is just b/c we are not terribly religious and BOR is fleecing the state and the "believers" we shouldn't just jump to accusations. Though I'm sure Ioan Pop has his share of enemies, that does not necessarily make him guilty of sexual assault.
ReplyDeleteThe one thing I am not 100% convinced of is if he'll actually be convicted. How the hell do you prove sexual assault without solid evidence? As far as I know there is no video, picture or sound recording to prove it. There may or may not be some witnesses and then it's all going to turn into a good old fashioned romanian scandal ca-n piață since it's going to be his word against the victims'.
ReplyDeleteAs to why there were no accusations before the complaint, here are some of the reasons:
One of them is that a vast majority of church going Romanians in Canada, as you might know, don't necessarily go there for the church but for the community, balul strugurilor and other crap like that. When they came here many of them didn't speak the language (some still don't) and didn't know very many people. So they went to church to meet others like them. The community starts growing, they get to know each other, their kids grow up and go to school together. Then along comes St. Ioan the Rapist and starts getting touchy-feely with some of the women. Some of them complain to their husbands, others to their friends, and most people start figuring out that Ioan Pop is a perv, but more or less tolerate it and don't file complaints - NOT because they like him (many people actually don't) but because they don't want to get kicked out of the community they love so much. Now that shit has hit the fan they start coming out, and there are many more that could come out but won't, probably due to shame or pride. Or maybe they still think that the community can't exist without the priest.
Another much much more serious reason - with legal implications - is blackmail. There's this lady that shall not be named who cheated on her husband (they've divorced since but this is beside the point). She feels guilty, is a bit religious and a bit stupid, so she goes to church to confess. St. Ioan the Rapist listens closely and immediately takes advantage of the situation, threatening to let the cat out of the bag if she doesn't respond to his sexual advances. This sickens me more than anything else and I really hope that she's one of the ones that came out this week. I also doubt this is the only case of blackmail but since I haven't heard of any other cases maybe it is, I don't really care.
Either way - the one thing people should be asking themselves is not why nobody complained before but rather why are most people not surprised by the accusations.
Is it completely impossible that he hasn't committed the crimes he's accused of and people are coming out in a sort of ganging up hysteria, because they didn't like him, because they like the attention or to pose as a victim or because they confuse "sexual assault" with "he forced me to confess by yelling before I was ready".
ReplyDeleteI'm not saying he's innocent - I have no clue about his guilt or prior allegations - but just like it's hard to prove sexual assault when it happened, it's also hard to prove your innocence when you are falsely accused. Think about it. An ex-girlfriend of yours from high-school comes out and accuses you of having raped her at a rave some 20 years ago. You're quite sure you haven't attended that rave. Two of her friends come out and claim that you slapped their butt and/or pinched their nipples when you were drunk 19 years ago. That you may have done, but it wasn't an "assault" context - they were pulling down on your underwear and you didn't want a threesome b/c they were disgustingly drunk.
Obviously, my example is extreme, but my point stands: it is just as hard to prove sexual assault as it is to prove your innocence. It seems to me that the system is currently tilted toward making it easier to prove sexual assault. If the priest committed the crimes he's accused of, he should get what he deserves, especially in the light of his smearing his accuser. But multiple accusations are not always a sign that someone's guilty.
Witnesses depositions and credibility are very important - but assessing these qualities is a highly subjective process fraught with error.
Vezi băi Zeamo, de ce te împing io să te duci la tribunal la data de?
ReplyDeleteP-ormă... zici că io-s prost, latru aiurea, alea.
hehehe...
Fin'că-i important, D-AIA!
Fin'că acuzații multiple nu înseamnă vinovăție dovedită, ce dreaq' ești așa dens?
Mai ai timp să reconsideri să accepți rolul de reporter plătit.
A fost deja un court appearance, pe soptite. I wrote about it in the last article - unfinished.
ReplyDeleteHalal reporter, ce să zic... romglez.
ReplyDeleteBleah.
If you're talking about me, I never claimed to be a reporter, and I didn't promise to go to court for you either. Our agreement was that if I go, you pay me (IF being the keyword).
ReplyDeleteYou actually don't give a shit, do you?
ReplyDeleteFirst of all, I learned of the court appearance post factum. Secondly, I'm still on antibiotics, convalescing.
ReplyDeleteI see very little point in getting emotionally involved in an issue I cannot establish anything factually, purely as a spectator, witnessing a deeply flawed process. I have numerous issues with Canadian jurisprudence (I could write a book about how much the Ontario Courts suck and how "justice" happens mostly by accident, for it does happen, every so often). So even though I may have planned to go to court, I'm somewhat happy I didn't have a chance to do so.
Ahem.
ReplyDeleteClear as spring water in a bottle.
WHY did you raise the subject in the first place, then?
Bleah.
Ooo, vai, sunt bolnăvior, mă doare-n gât, alea.
ReplyDeleteAsta mergea la fix în clasa șaptea.
Ție chiar nu ți-e rușine nițel așa... să vii cu scuze d-astea?
Întreb, nu dau cu paru'.
This blog is a repository of news / reactions I consider important re: Romania or diaspora in Toronto, mostly for my own benefit. The alleged incidents happened in my backyard (practically speaking). I have met father Ioan Pop and gave "pomana" (alms?) at his church.
ReplyDeleteThis is important for me because I simply do not know what happened and as such, it's difficult for me to form an opinion. When I have such difficulties, I tend to research a topic. And since such research is something most people have difficulty doing, I publish it in the hope others might find it useful. I also like to refer back to it when I need to remember something. These are my written memories.
Why do I have to explain this to you monthly?
Boboru' ar aprecia mai dăgrabă un post cu simptomele dă boală, alea - decît caterincă englezească degeabistă.
ReplyDeleteHai, serios acuma, cât de rău îți e?
Ejti pă moarte... ori mai dai nițel dîn aripioare?
Ce-ai?
Gripă, febră, alea?
I actually started writing about it.. :)
ReplyDeleteAaaa... uochei, deci nu-i ceva pă viață și pă moarte.
ReplyDeleteEram cît p-aci să fac gălăgie pă tuiter, feisbuci și alea.
Bea ceai, mănâncă păine prăjită la negru, cu unt și sare, simte-te fericit că nu mai latru la tine azi.
Amen to that :)
ReplyDeleteWere the complains done via gossip? Did anyone let him know that they were
ReplyDeletenot comfortable with his behaviour and he did not stop?
In an encounter, both parts remember the interaction as it happened.What they chose to say though might vary.
ReplyDeleteImagine if you have difficulties proving the innocence of the guilty guy, how difficult it must be to have the victims look at themselves and admit they were abused. Wounds and hurts tend to be repressed and the victims won't come forward becuase they feel they are guilty for attracting the aggression on them. They are afraid to be exposed. And most often, many sympathize with the person who proves muscles. So, the priest innocence, from my part, you can flush it down the toilet, no big deal. The problem is with the aggression towards the victims. I've seen so many examples of people being dumped down because they wanted to exercise their right and not support "hrrradu guy" who has such a beautiful future ahead.
So there are people and people. The best this priest can do? Go back in Romania and recycle.